CONDITIONAL IMMORTALITY
*The following is a positive case for conditional immortality written by one of the founders of Project315. While this view of hell is not orthodox, nor is it shared by everyone at Project315, it is also not heresy. It a legitimate view of the afterlife that takes nothing away from the Trinity, nor the saving work of Christ, nor the canon of scripture, nor the inerrancy of scripture. Traditionalists and conditionalists alike should be able to agree on at least three things: 1) Whether the fate of the lost is eternal conscious punishment or eternal destruction, the fate of the lost is terrifying, 2) hell is a place of justice (a place where humans pay for all the evil, immorality, and wickedness they commit in their life, and 3) the same way brothers and sisters in Christ should not be divided over whether there will be a Rapture or not, brothers and sisters in Christ should also not be divided over this.
“By way of definition: belief in conditional immortality is the belief that God created Man only potentially immortal. Immortality is a state gained by grace through faith when the believer receives eternal life and becomes a partaker of the divine nature, immortality being inherent in God alone.”--John Wenham, Facing Hell.
The traditional view of the afterlife is that the soul will live consciously forever--either in heaven or hell. But this concept is not explicitly taught in the bible—it is assumed. So where did this assumption (immortality is inherent to our souls) start? The Egyptians were the first to teach this concept. Greek philosophers, most notably Plato, adopted this view and popularized it throughout the Greek world. Both Jews and Christians were influenced by Greek philosophy. Augustine of Hippo subscribed to the immortality of the soul belief. He was one of the most important figures in the development of Western Christianity. The Encyclopedia Britannica states: "He [Augustine] fused the religion of the New Testament with the Platonic tradition of Greek philosophy."
"The belief that the soul continues its existence after the dissolution of the body is...nowhere expressly taught in Holy Scripture...The belief in the immortality of the soul came to the Jews from contact with Greek thought and chiefly through the philosophy of Plato its principle exponent, who was led to it through Orphic and Eleusinian mysteries in which Babylonian and Egyptian views were strangely blended." (The Jewish Encyclopedia, article, "Immortality of the Soul").
What is explicitly taught is that immortality is conditional upon us becoming partakers of the divine nature through faith in Jesus Christ--John 3:16 "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life."
“The Old Testament utilizes some fifty Hebrew words and seventy-five figures of speech to describe the ultimate end of the wicked—and every one sounds…like total extinction.’—Wenham, Facing Hell referring to Edward Fudge, The Fire That Consumes.
A consistent problem with theologians who hold on to the traditional view of hell is that rather than carefully consider & refute the merits of conditional immortality, they either lean on the technicality of scripture—nebulous ones at that—or they make a straw man argument.
Most of the time you can find faulty theological reasoning by asking the following questions:
1. Is the view/doctrine harmonious with God’s attributes?
a. God is a personal Spirit
b. God is omniscient—knows everything
c. God is omnipotent—all powerful
d. God is omnipresent—present everywhere
e. God is sovereign
f. God is holy
g. God is Absolute Truth
h. God is righteous
i. God is just
j. God is love
k. God is merciful
l. God is faithful
m. God Never Changes
2. Is the view/doctrine harmonious with scripture?
Our theology can get all screwed up when it is viewed through the lens of our flesh, the world, or our peers. Some well-meaning Christians can end up taking away God’s character for the sake of scripture, or they end up taking away scripture for the sake of magnifying the attributes of God that suit their feelings. In other words, people often either put too much emphasis on equivocal biblical text (where interpretation is various) while not considering the philosophical implications (i.e. the interpretation conflicts with God’s characteristics), or they put too much emphasis on ONE of God’s attributes (a philosophical point) while suppressing or even dismissing biblical text that completely contradicts the philosophical view. We hear this all the time when people say, “God is Love!” Yes, God is love, but He is not ONLY love. However, people often use this statement in a way that magnifies this ONE attribute (love) that suits their feelings while ignoring God’s other attributes, and dismissing scripture that doesn’t emphasize God's love.
For example, in the case of Rob Bell’s position on hell/eternity— His view is not harmonious with scripture or God’s character—he magnifies God’s ONE attribute of LOVE and ignores the fact that God is a JUST God (that punishes evil). Remember, mistaken people either take away God’s attributes for the sake of scripture, or they take away scripture for the sake of magnifying certain attributes of God to suit their feelings.
God has revealed Himself in nature, our conscience, our laws of logic (philosophy), through His Son Jesus Christ, and the special revelation of His Word (the scriptures). So the true test of a view/ doctrine being closer to the TRUTH than another is if it is philosophically and biblically harmonious. Our conscience is another form of revelation that can be used to test a view that has passed the biblical and philosophical test. However, our conscience is affected by sin (the more we are living in sin, the less in tune we are with the Spirit of God). Therefore, it is only when you have the Spirit of God mixed with the Word of God that you have an infallible text.
Now what about the view of hell as unending conscious torment?
In order to come to some adjudication we need to juxtapose (place side by side) the scriptures that support each view and go from there. I will start with scriptures that are commonly used to support the orthodox view of hell. Below the scripture I will try to explain (**) the error in interpretation.
Scriptures used to support hell as eternal torment for all the unsaved:
Revelation 20:10 And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.
** If you are sentenced to a prison (where many will be executed and spend the rest of their lives there) does that mean you and everyone else that goes there must be executed or spend the rest of your lives there? Similarly, just because hell is an eternal place where there exists torment day and night forever and ever (Revelation 20:10), doesn’t mean that EVERYONE who goes there must be tormented day and night forever and ever.
Revelation 14: 9-11 9 Then another angel, a third one, followed them, saying with a loud voice, "If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives a mark on his forehead or on his hand,
10 he also will drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is mixed in full strength in the cup of His anger; and he will be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb.
11 "And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever; they have no rest day and night, those who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name."
**People mistakenly use this scripture to interpret eternal torment of the damned. But they are not looking carefully at this scripture because this passage does not say conscious torment will last forever and ever. This verse is talking about the smoke going up forever and ever. This scripture is referring to Isaiah 34:10 “…it’s smoke will go up forever.” Psalm 37:20 says, "But the wicked will perish;
And the enemies of the LORD will be like the glory of the pastures,
They vanish--like smoke they vanish away."
Additionally, can any theologian unequivocally interpret Revelation-given all its nebulous symbolism? Furthermore, is it wise to base any fundamental doctrine on such passages—especially if it conflicts with other scripture?
Matt 13: 49-50: So it will be at the end of the age; the angels will come forth and take out the wicked from among the righteous,
50 and will throw them into the furnace of fire; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
**What this scripture says: There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth (conscious torment) in this place that we will call the eternal lake of fire.
**What this scripture does not say: It does not say everyone that enters the eternal lake of fire will be weeping and gnashing their teeth forever and ever.
Mark 9:43-44 .....'And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched: Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
**This sounds a lot like Jesus was quoting Isaiah 66:24…”.'And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.'
Matt18:8 "If your hand or your foot causes you to stumble, cut it off and throw it from you; it is better for you to enter life crippled or lame, than to have two hands or two feet and be cast into the eternal fire."
Matt 25:41 "Then He will also say to those on His left, 'Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels." (Is it possible to enter an eternal place without being confined to that place for eternity? Is it possible that those that go to the same place as the devil [the lake of fire] will not receive the same sentence (duration) as the devil?)
42 for I was hungry, and you gave Me nothing to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave Me nothing to drink;
43 I was a stranger, and you did not invite Me in; naked, and you did not clothe Me; sick, and in prison, and you did not visit Me.'
44 "Then they themselves also will answer, 'Lord, when did we see You hungry, or thirsty, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not take care of You?'
45 "Then He will answer them, 'Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.'
46 "These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.
**Punishment and torment are not interchangeable... because while all condemned eternal torment can be considered punishment, not all punishment can be considered torment. When invoking a judgment, you can punish someone without tormenting them, but you can't torment someone without punishing them. Some punishment does not fall under the category of torment—such as taking something away from someone (in this case life/existence).
** Consider the following example:
A father's punishment toward his son could be to send him to jail “a place prepared for murderers and rapists to spend the rest of their lives or to be executed", but that does not mean that he is sentencing his son to the same judgment as them. The son is going to the same place, (where murderers and rapist spend the rest of their existence in); however, that does not mean that the father is sending his son there for the rest of his existence.
Luke 16:22-28 (NASB) story of Lazarus and the rich man—**Apologetics Study Bible footnote, “The opening to this story (“There was a rich man”) indicates that it is a parable and thus the details of its picture of the afterlife should not be taken too literally.”**
22 ”Now the poor man died and was carried away by the angels to Abraham's bosom; and the rich man also died and was buried.
23 "In Hades he lifted up his eyes, being in torment, and saw Abraham far away and Lazarus in his bosom.
24 "And he cried out and said, 'Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus so that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool off my tongue, for I am in agony in this flame.'
25 "But Abraham said, 'Child, remember that during your life you received your good things, and likewise Lazarus bad things; but now he is being comforted here, and you are in agony.
26 'And besides all this, between us and you there is a great chasm fixed, so that those who wish to come over from here to you will not be able, and that none may cross over from there to us.'
27 "And he said, 'Then I beg you, father, that you send him to my father's house--
28 for I have five brothers--in order that he may warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.
**I don’t see anything in this scripture that is contrary to the view of conditional immortality.**
More scriptures that some mistakenly use to support the doctrine of never ending torment:
From gotquestions.org: “It seems that the unsaved are resurrected with a body prepared for eternity just as the saved are (Revelation 20:13; Acts 24:15). These bodies are prepared for an eternal fate.
--Acts 24:15-- having a hope in God, which these men cherish themselves, that there shall certainly be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked.
● **Answer: This scripture does not imply or suggest a body prepared for eternity, only that there will be a “resurrection." Couldn't the purpose of this "resurrection" be to standing before the judgment seat of Christ and receive judgment for your actions?
● Is it possible to be resurrected and judged without immortality? Why is immortality necessary for judgment?
● Is it possible to be sentenced to the second death described in Revelation 20: 13-14 after paying for your debt (sins) in the lake of fire. (The more sins you have committed in your life, the more you have to pay/ longer stay. That seems just and consistent with God's Word and character-- (Luke 12:47-48) "That servant who knows his master's will and does not get ready or does not do what his master wants will be beaten with many blows. But the one who does not know and does things deserving punishment will be beaten with few blows.
Scriptures that support conditional immortality:
Psalm 92:7 That when the wicked sprouted up like grass
And all who did iniquity flourished,
It was only that they might be destroyed forevermore.
Ezekiel 18:4
Behold, all souls are Mine; the soul of the father as well as the soul of the son is Mine The soul who sins will die.
Matt 10:28 Do not fear those who kill the body but are unable to kill the soul; but rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
Matt 7:13-14 Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it.
“14 For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it”
Matt 10:28 "Do not fear those who kill the body but are unable to kill the soul; but rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell."
John 3:16 "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes* in Him shall not perish**, but have eternal life.
• *Greek word is “pisteuo”-put ones faith in, trust
• ** Greek word is “apollymi”--destroy, kill, cause to lose
Romans 6:23 ................For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
In other words, the normal consequences of sin is death; on the other hand, immortality (the opposite of death) is something that man does not have of and by himself—it comes only as a gift from God.
James 4:12 ....................There is one lawgiver, who is able to save and to destroy
Philippians 3:19 .............Whose end is destruction
2 Thessalonians 1:9 ........Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction
Hebrews 10:39 ...............But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition (Greek: destruction); but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.
2 Peter 3:9 …………The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish (Greek: apollymi) but for all to come to repentance.
Revelation 2:11 He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches He who overcomes will not be hurt by the second death.
Revelation 20: 13-14 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead which were in them; and they were judged, every one of them according to their deeds. 14Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire This is the second death, the lake of fire.
Matt 19:29 And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or children or farms for My name's sake, will receive many times as much, and will inherit eternal life.
PHILOSOPHICAL PROBLEM:
No debt (transgression) can warrant an infinite payment (torment) on the grounds that there is no such thing as an "infinite debt (transgression)." In other words, how is it just to require an infinite payment for a finite number of crimes committed over a finite period of time. Some traditionalists say we are deserving of infinite punishment because we sinned against an infinite "God." That is like saying someone who stole a piece of candy from a billion dollar company should owe a billion dollars in restitution.
Matthew 18:34 And his lord, moved with anger, handed him over to the torturers until he should repay all that was owed him.
Romans 2:5-8 But because of your stubbornness and unrepentant heart you are storing up wrath for yourself in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God,
6who WILL RENDER TO EACH PERSON ACCORDING TO HIS DEEDS:
7 to those who by perseverance in doing good seek for glory and honor and immortality, eternal life;
8 but to those who are selfishly ambitious and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, wrath and indignation.
Psalm 62:12 And loving-kindness is Yours, O Lord,
For You recompense a man according to his work.
Proverbs 24:12 If you say, "See, we did not know this,"
Does He not consider it who weighs the hearts?
And does He not know it who keeps your soul?
And will He not render to man according to his work?
Matthew 16:27 "For the Son of Man is going to come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and WILL THEN REPAY EVERY MAN ACCORDING TO HIS DEEDS.
Genesis 3:22-24 And the Lord God said, “The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever.” 23 So the Lord God banished him from the Garden of Eden to work the ground from which he had been taken. 24 After he drove the man out, he placed on the east side of the Garden of Edencherubim and a flaming sword flashing back and forth to guard the way to the tree of life.
"The Tree of LIFE"
Why did God guard the tree of life? It seems God knew that it would be worse for man to continue living forever in a state "knowing good and evil" (i.e. conscious unending sinful state). Additionally, it would not be necessary to guard the tree of life if Adam and Eve were already made to "live forever." (Ironically, the following is from a GQM article (who are traditionalists) on "what is the meaning of the tree of life?"):
"By barring access to the tree of life, God showed compassion in His omniscience. Knowing that because of sin, life would be filled with sorrow and toil, He graciously limited the number of years men would live. To live eternally in a sinful state with its results—pain, disease, heartache, toil, and grief—would mean endless agony for humanity, with no hope of the relief that comes with death."
In short, those who believe hell is a place of unending torment believe the lost are currently in the state God claimed we would be in IF Adam and Eve ate from the tree of life. So either they believe the sword guarding the tree of life was pointless, or they believe Adam, Eve, or one of their descendants snuck past the flaming sword and ate from the tree of life.
Question for those who believe in eternal conscious torment: what is the difference between the state the lost are in now, and the state the lost would have been in, had Adam and Eve eaten from the tree of life?
Conclusion:
In his book, ‘Facing Hell’, John Wenham found 264 references in the bible to the fate of the lost.
10 (3.7%) call it Gehenna—which picture corpses being consumed by fire and maggots
26 (about 10%) reference to burning up
59 (about 22%) speak of destruction, perdition, utter loss or ruin (greek word apollymi) as in John 3:16
20 (about 8%) speak of separation from God, which carries no connotation of endlessness unless one presupposes immortality.
25 (about 10%) refer to death in its finality, called ‘the second death’.
108 (about 41%) refer to what he calls unforgiven sin: adverse judgment, in which the penalty is not specified
15 (about 6%) refer to anguish
1 (1/2 of 1%) refers to human beings having no rest day or night “the smoke whose torment goes up for ever and ever”
Revelation 14: 9-11 Then another angel, a third one, followed them, saying with a loud voice, "If anyone (worships the beast and his image, and receives a mark on his forehead or on his hand,
10 he also will drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is mixed in full strength in the cup of His anger; and he will be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb.
11 "And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever; they have no rest day and night, those who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name."
**People mistakenly use this scripture to interpret eternal torment of the damned. But they are not looking carefully at this scripture because this passage does not say conscious torment will last forever and ever. This verse is talking about the smoke going up forever and ever. This scripture is referring to Isaiah 34:10 “…it’s smoke will go up forever.” Psalm 37:20 says "But the wicked will perish;
And the enemies of the LORD will be like the glory of the pastures,
They vanish--like smoke they vanish away."
Additionally, can any theologian unequivocally interpret Revelation-given all its nebulous symbolism? Is it wise to base any fundamental doctrine on such passages—especially if it conflicts with other scripture?
As biblical exegetes I wonder if we should take John 3:16 and Matthew 10:28 figuratively, but take Revelation, despite its apocalyptic imagery, literally? It seems we have got it backwards; that is, we should take John 3:16 and Matt 10:28 literally, and Revelation (with all its symbolism) figuratively.
“I think that the ordinary decent person who is groping his way through life, ignorant of God, battered and perplexed by the sinful world around him, is helped best by introducing him or her to the Jesus of the gospels in his gentleness, truthfulness and power. As we talk, while not hiding the seriousness of sin, we must see that the love of God gets through. To present God as the one whose ‘divinely executed retributive process’ will bring him into everlasting torment unless he believes, is hardly likely to help. To any normal way of thinking (and Jesus has told us when we think about God to think how the best of human fathers act), this depicts God as a terrible sadist, not as a loving Father”—John Wenham (Facing Hell)
While I believe we should have respect for long standing tradition, I also believe a view should not be dismissed and scoffed at merely because it is unorthodox--it should be considered on its own standing with God's Word.
Romans 2:5-8 But because of your stubbornness and unrepentant heart you are storing up wrath for yourself in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God,
6who WILL RENDER TO EACH PERSON ACCORDING TO HIS DEEDS:
7 to those who by perseverance in doing good seek for glory and honor and immortality, eternal life;
8 but to those who are selfishly ambitious and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, wrath and indignation.
Psalm 62:12 And loving-kindness is Yours, O Lord,
For You recompense a man according to his work.
Proverbs 24:12 If you say, "See, we did not know this,"
Does He not consider it who weighs the hearts?
And does He not know it who keeps your soul?
And will He not render to man according to his work?
Matthew 16:27 "For the Son of Man is going to come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and WILL THEN REPAY EVERY MAN ACCORDING TO HIS DEEDS.
Genesis 3:22-24 And the Lord God said, “The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever.” 23 So the Lord God banished him from the Garden of Eden to work the ground from which he had been taken. 24 After he drove the man out, he placed on the east side of the Garden of Edencherubim and a flaming sword flashing back and forth to guard the way to the tree of life.
"The Tree of LIFE"
Why did God guard the tree of life? It seems God knew that it would be worse for man to continue living forever in a state "knowing good and evil" (i.e. conscious unending sinful state). Additionally, it would not be necessary to guard the tree of life if Adam and Eve were already made to "live forever." (Ironically, the following is from a GQM article (who are traditionalists) on "what is the meaning of the tree of life?"):
"By barring access to the tree of life, God showed compassion in His omniscience. Knowing that because of sin, life would be filled with sorrow and toil, He graciously limited the number of years men would live. To live eternally in a sinful state with its results—pain, disease, heartache, toil, and grief—would mean endless agony for humanity, with no hope of the relief that comes with death."
In short, those who believe hell is a place of unending torment believe the lost are currently in the state God claimed we would be in IF Adam and Eve ate from the tree of life. So either they believe the sword guarding the tree of life was pointless, or they believe Adam, Eve, or one of their descendants snuck past the flaming sword and ate from the tree of life.
Question for those who believe in eternal conscious torment: what is the difference between the state the lost are in now, and the state the lost would have been in, had Adam and Eve eaten from the tree of life?
Conclusion:
In his book, ‘Facing Hell’, John Wenham found 264 references in the bible to the fate of the lost.
10 (3.7%) call it Gehenna—which picture corpses being consumed by fire and maggots
26 (about 10%) reference to burning up
59 (about 22%) speak of destruction, perdition, utter loss or ruin (greek word apollymi) as in John 3:16
20 (about 8%) speak of separation from God, which carries no connotation of endlessness unless one presupposes immortality.
25 (about 10%) refer to death in its finality, called ‘the second death’.
108 (about 41%) refer to what he calls unforgiven sin: adverse judgment, in which the penalty is not specified
15 (about 6%) refer to anguish
1 (1/2 of 1%) refers to human beings having no rest day or night “the smoke whose torment goes up for ever and ever”
Revelation 14: 9-11 Then another angel, a third one, followed them, saying with a loud voice, "If anyone (worships the beast and his image, and receives a mark on his forehead or on his hand,
10 he also will drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is mixed in full strength in the cup of His anger; and he will be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb.
11 "And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever; they have no rest day and night, those who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name."
**People mistakenly use this scripture to interpret eternal torment of the damned. But they are not looking carefully at this scripture because this passage does not say conscious torment will last forever and ever. This verse is talking about the smoke going up forever and ever. This scripture is referring to Isaiah 34:10 “…it’s smoke will go up forever.” Psalm 37:20 says "But the wicked will perish;
And the enemies of the LORD will be like the glory of the pastures,
They vanish--like smoke they vanish away."
Additionally, can any theologian unequivocally interpret Revelation-given all its nebulous symbolism? Is it wise to base any fundamental doctrine on such passages—especially if it conflicts with other scripture?
As biblical exegetes I wonder if we should take John 3:16 and Matthew 10:28 figuratively, but take Revelation, despite its apocalyptic imagery, literally? It seems we have got it backwards; that is, we should take John 3:16 and Matt 10:28 literally, and Revelation (with all its symbolism) figuratively.
“I think that the ordinary decent person who is groping his way through life, ignorant of God, battered and perplexed by the sinful world around him, is helped best by introducing him or her to the Jesus of the gospels in his gentleness, truthfulness and power. As we talk, while not hiding the seriousness of sin, we must see that the love of God gets through. To present God as the one whose ‘divinely executed retributive process’ will bring him into everlasting torment unless he believes, is hardly likely to help. To any normal way of thinking (and Jesus has told us when we think about God to think how the best of human fathers act), this depicts God as a terrible sadist, not as a loving Father”—John Wenham (Facing Hell)
While I believe we should have respect for long standing tradition, I also believe a view should not be dismissed and scoffed at merely because it is unorthodox--it should be considered on its own standing with God's Word.
We will add a page for the traditional (orthodox) view of hell soon.